Disappearing Tarn II

Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion.
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Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby ILUVSWTAS » Sat 27 Jun, 2020 7:33 pm

Tentpeg regardless of if you are right or wrong my point was that social media and the mainstream media have played a huge role in the unsustainable numbers that have flocked here in the past few days.
Nothing to see here.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby Hermione » Sat 27 Jun, 2020 7:56 pm

If only all those people with the capacity to get out in the wilderness actually saw the value in preserving it.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby TentPeg » Sat 27 Jun, 2020 8:55 pm

'unsustainable'?
Well every time we get a good rain we will see significant numbers heading to that temporary tarn. There is no blame to media - social or otherwise. That is the latest new normal.
We manage that or lock them out. The first makes sense. The second is an ostrich response. Simple.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby ILUVSWTAS » Sat 27 Jun, 2020 9:15 pm

TentPeg wrote:'unsustainable'?
Well every time we get a good rain we will see significant numbers heading to that temporary tarn. There is no blame to media - social or otherwise. That is the latest new normal.
We manage that or lock them out. The first makes sense. The second is an ostrich response. Simple.



Last winter you'd get 4 or 5 people at a time up there.
It's in the paper, on the local news, all over social media with hundred of "we must go" comments and all of a sudden there's 500ppl a day going up.... you don't think it had anything to do with that?? Seriously????
Nothing to see here.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby TentPeg » Sat 27 Jun, 2020 10:01 pm

I love a good bit of outrage - but perhaps you should read my post again.

Social media is the new normal and people following it is the new normal.

What is the problem with increased numbers? They can be managed. We should be rejoicing greater numbers not regaling them.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby doogs » Sun 28 Jun, 2020 9:13 am

ABC Hobart are clearly at fault here (+ The Mercury and Tasmania FB and Insta). They seem to have professional Instagram and Facebook staff these days whose worth is measured by the number of likes that they collect. This is regularly to the detriment off the environment. They post pretty pictures of places which aren't disposed to large numbers. If a location is fragile and they want to post a photo, then why not just give a vague description off where it is and turn off comments so it location doesn't become the next Insta-stampede.
Disappearing Tarn has been on the tasmaps for years, people just want things handed to them on an Instagram or Facebook plate these days. I love that more people are heading out at the moment. I would just rather they chose their location for adventure from research of a map and guidebook rather than on a whim from social media.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby north-north-west » Sun 28 Jun, 2020 9:22 am

If there was any sign of the increased number of walkers leading to increased protection for NPs and wilderness, I might be with you to some extent on this TentPeg, but instead almost everything I see and read is pushing for more commercialisation and development in such areas to "improve access". Most of the IG crowd want bigger and better facilities; they are not interested in going out of their comfort zone, either physically or ideologically. Another easy daywalk and another pretty picture will have no effect on their voting patterns.

Also, how can you say "There is no blame to media - social or otherwise" in one post, and then "Social media is the new normal and people following it is the new normal" in the next? Any environmental damage resulting from a massive influx of people into an area not prepared for it, as a result of media exposure, can be blamed on that media exposure. Simple logic.
You can't "manage" increasing numbers without a lag. More media exposure = more people = more damage = more need for infrastructure. So the boundaries are forever being pushed out until there's nowhere left that hasn't been *&%$#!.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby ILUVSWTAS » Sun 28 Jun, 2020 10:02 am

Well said Doogs and NNW. Put into words far better than I can manage.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby TentPeg » Mon 29 Jun, 2020 9:27 am

The new normal and social media.

So here are my thoughts - slightly hurried - but hopefully coherent.

Let's go back in Tasmanian time prior to invasion day. I have no expertise in these times but it seems to me that the non-verbal social media consisted of, in part, petroglyphs. I assume that they were a means of conveying information about their external world.
After the invasion we had artists such as Gould and Piguenit who's landscapes no doubt influenced people to head out of the towns to see these panoramas.
The next social media form was the photographic plate use by such intrepid walker as Fred Smithies. His, and others, impact was to assist in the push to create scenic reserves overseen by the Scenic Preservation Board. Fred no doubt inspired many to follow into those wonderful and wild areas untrodden by whites. Fred's era was in the early part of last century and he was a friend of my parents. Not that long ago really.
And then came along other social media influencers - Olegas Truchanas and the Peter Dombrovskis. Olegas went to places many of us still dream of. He took photos and did slide shows garnering public support for the bush and, of course, Lake Pedder.
Peter changed the view of many of the "masses" with his book/s of photos inspiring many to change their view of the wilderness and many to go and see those areas.
And then there is now Bill Wilkinson also using the social media form of a book inspiring many people to go to places they would not otherwise even think about.
And now the social media of today. The mobile phone with its various apps influencing the masses to go places and see things they have not seen before.
So, after all of that, it is not the fault of social media that people act in the way they do. Let go of the blame game and deal with the here and now. Manage it. It may not be an easy process but then nothing has been so far.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby tastrax » Mon 29 Jun, 2020 11:05 am

Yes, lets increase taxes so the managers have enough money to tackle the increased impacts.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby Azza » Mon 29 Jun, 2020 11:18 am

Managing it properly would be to not encourage everyone to turn up on the same day.
Which is what social media did.

Is it sustainable or even manageable if several hundred people descend on a particular location in such a short period of time.
Is it a wise use of resources to upgrade a track that is mostly ignored to a standard where it can cope with gets smashed for one day every year or two.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby Pteropus » Tue 30 Jun, 2020 12:42 am

Good discussion, but what is the answer here? Somehow I’ve found myself living in Hobart for several years now, and the mountain has become my new backyard. I walk its slopes almost every single week and have learnt many of its secret places, including the Disappearing Tarn, amongst many, many other places. Old bushwalkers who are very familiar with the mountain have shown me places people rarely see, but i've also shown them places they’ve never seen before, and by no means do I think I’m an expert, knowing there are many more secrets for me to learn too.

Before I came here I knew of the Tarn through its name on the map, and admittedly, a photo posted to this site many years ago, so had visited it on a number of occasions, hoping to see it full. I saw it in the snow, after some rain once, maybe almost a quarter full, and never saw anyone else when I’d been there. I went in after the big rains in 2018, guessing it would have water, inviting a photographer friend along, finally seeing it full and I even posted some pics here on this thread. We met maybe 10 or so people there that day, more than I normally see anywhere on the Mountain other than at The Springs or the Pinnacle, but it wasn't over run. Apparently once photos were posted to instagram etc everyone went there after that.

Last week I walked there on Wednesday. I’d invited the same friend who came with me on the previous occasion, and when we arrived at The Springs I baulked at the number of cars and asked how desperate he was to go there again. If he’d not wished to go in, I’d have walked elsewhere, simply because of the number of people.
There were many more people than I could be bothered counting, and yeah, there were dogs too. Of course me and my friend were there as well, and of course we all had a right to be there (not sure about the dogs).

Were we there to enjoy the bush? Absolutely. Though it was raining, quite wet and cold, this was a once in a blue moon phenomenon. However, I can’t imagine many of them bushwaking if there if it wasn't so unusual. After all, if I could see it anytime, I’d likely have stayed inside that day. And yes, people were swimming, something I wouldn’t do there, not the least because it was freezing and the very reason ILUV pointed out, that this is the water catchment.
P6240496.JPG
Blury Tarn People 1

P6240500.JPG
Blury Tarn Swimming People 2

But people were out enjoying nature in their own way, I guess, and the way they treated it comes down to individual attitudes. I’m not the bushwalking ethics police, but there’s places I won’t show people because I don’t want it becoming the next place for people to ‘discover’. I’ve previously noted other places I love becoming ‘Instafamous’ and these arguments play out time and time again on social media and elsewhere. I know everyone has a right to go to these places, and yes, i'm a ring-in from the Mainland so am adding to the pressure to Disappearing Tarn that wasn't there previously, but I'd like to think i'm generally respectful where I go, but I don’t always see the same respect from others. For example, I noted recently on a walk to a ‘secret’ location, a ruin somewhere off track that i'd last visited years ago, had been deliberately defaced and broken up, relatively recently by the looks of things. This is not the first time, and likely not the last, that I’ve seen this sort of thing.

But am I a hypocrite when I decide to visit these places? Probably. Though I’d like to think I respect them, not touching anything. What ever happened to ‘Take only pictures, leave only foot prints’?

I guess some people don’t really get it. Or do they get it and simply enjoy the world differently? I don't really know. Not sure if i'll go to the tarn next time it rains big though.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby Mechanic-AL » Tue 30 Jun, 2020 1:39 pm

Social media is here to stay so I agree in principle with those who say "get used to it ".

I also agree with those who think management is the answer but in truth I wouldn't have a clue just how I would go about managing something like the Disappearing Tarn.

When I first visited the Twelve Apostles more than 30 years ago there was little more than a few gravel carparks and some warning signs for the half a dozen or so people there not to get too close to the edge. When I drove past not that long ago I was blown away by what a 3 ringed circus it had become complete with helicopters and planes buzzing overhead and the noise of large tourist coaches roaring in and out of the carparks.
This is an attraction that is being MANAGED but has still turned into a s#@t show.

The world is full of scenic attractions that are managed but have still become degraded and a bit depressing to visit.
When people say "just manage it" like that will make all the problems go away it would be good to get some suggestions on HOW they feel it should be managed.

Definitely not an easy one and I have a degree of sympathy for some of the people charged with these responsibilities.
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A reed shaken in the wind"?
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby rangersac » Tue 30 Jun, 2020 1:46 pm

No doubt social media played a part in the large numbers visiting, but it's not the full story. There's a lot of people with spare time on their hands out there who've been cooped up for a couple of months thanks to COVID. Now that restrictions are over, every local track and reserve around Hobart are seeing massively increased visitation from what I've seen. I'm involved in a fair bit of Landcare stuff and this is also the opinion of many group conveners I've spoken to.

In the case of Disappearing Tarn, by its nature it is so ephemeral that visitation will always be concentrated and difficult to manage. However I do suspect that by the time the Tarn makes a reappearance it's a good chance things will have calmed down somewhat regarding COVID, and many people will have alternative entertainments to pursue.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby north-north-west » Tue 30 Jun, 2020 2:55 pm

We can travel all over the island now, so there's no reason to concentrate on the Wellington Range options. I've been doing a fair few lesser peaks and other walks a bit further out of the city, and seen very few people.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby Montaine » Thu 16 Jul, 2020 7:39 pm

I find outrage over the apparent muddiness of the track from people who weren't even there pretty elitist (also, that's what happens when dirt gets wet), and concerns about impact on the lichen.. :roll: give me a break. These are just specious arguments about perceived impacts used to hide what we all know is true - that we wish we were the only ones who were around to enjoy these special places. Yep, I grumbled internally at the amount of people out at the tarn, but everyone out there was enjoying and cherishing nature. I think people in that frame of mind would happily adopt low-impact bushwalking principles if presented with them. It has been suggested before that those promoting such places through social media should bear some responsibility to promote those principles as well.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby ILUVSWTAS » Fri 17 Jul, 2020 7:07 am

Some people are actually able to look past their own selfish wants to things that are far more important than that.
Nothing to see here.
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby Montaine » Thu 23 Jul, 2020 8:09 pm

Better not go on any more bushwalks yourself then..?
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Re: Disappearing Tarn II

Postby tastrax » Thu 23 Jul, 2020 9:50 pm

Perhaps we should all stay at home and eat "Disappearing Tarn cake"!

https://www.facebook.com/babushka.au/po ... 6973631141
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