Winter Walks

Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion.
Forum rules
Tasmania specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Winter Walks

Postby brodme » Wed 06 May, 2020 11:29 pm

With things looking more promising by the day for parks and reserves to re-open I'm hoping to make a 2-3 night winter trip to Walls of Jerusalem this year, and possibly a couple of other smaller trips. My wife and I have done quite a lot of camping since across Spring/Summer/Autumn over the past couple of years, as well as winter camping on the south and east coast. We are generally well prepared and aware of the risks that conditions pose in winter but as this is our first trip in winter since moving to Tasmania, we're hoping for some first hand knowledge to ensure we haven't overlooked anything, especially as it's hard to find specific info about gear for Tassie conditions online.

A couple of general questions:

- Will a sleeping bag with a EN13537 -4 comfort / -10 limit rating + a thermal bag liner (rated 11 degrees) be enough warmth-wise?
- Any recommendations for a good 2 person tent for winter conditions?
- I'm in need of a new sleeping mat, are there any specific mats out there that are lightweight but suitable to our conditions?

Thanks in advance for the help - any other tips on walking in the Walls of Jerusalem during winter, or other walks are greatly appreciated!
brodme
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat 16 Nov, 2019 8:11 pm
Region: Tasmania

Re: Winter Walks

Postby RicktheHuman » Sun 10 May, 2020 10:12 am

The sleeping bag will probably be fine. Everyone is different though and your sleeping pad is going to play a significant role. You can always put more layers on (which you would be carrying in winter)
I can't comment on the tent because I use a Tarp/Bivy
The Thermarest Xlite has a good R Value (warmth) is lightweight and by all accounts is very comfortable. The Xtherm model is heavier but warmer. I'l add that I don't own either of those mats, but will be getting one in the future. Pads are a personel preference thing. I've had a bit of trial, error and hard lessons regarding sleeping pads including some very cold nights and sleeping on rocks...hahaha
Oh and don't forget to take dry socks to sleep in!
I lika do da cha-cha-cha
User avatar
RicktheHuman
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu 11 Dec, 2014 2:43 pm
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby north-north-west » Sun 10 May, 2020 2:24 pm

XTherm is under 500gm, warm and comfortable. Thermarest mats are best bought online from the UK - much cheaper than from Australian suppliers and the delivery times are reasonable.

The tent depends very much on your budget and where you will be using it. If you have the funds, Hilleberg are as close to bombproof as a tent gets, but they're not the lightest or anywhere near the cheapest. The OP Goondie and Mont Moondance are very popular and cheaper. WE First Arrow is nearly as solid as the Hillebergs, with plenty of room, while the Second Arrow is lighter and a bit squashier for two people.
If you're going to be sticking to coastal and lower level walks in winter, a three-season tent will probably suffice. Have a look at Tarptent - they're good value, light and easy to pitch.
Heaps more options. Just decide exactly what matters most for you in a tent before doing any serious looking. Cost, weight, durability, ease of pitching, inner space, inner first vs dual/fly first . . . lot of factors to consider.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 12777
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: Winter Walks

Postby philm » Mon 11 May, 2020 9:02 am

The sleeping bag with a comfort of -4 should be fine with back up clothing for extra layers if needed. The walls is relatively high altitude and hence open to snow and wind. In terms of mats these are key for warmth. The Thermarest XTherm is a great mat. I would not sue the Thermarest XLite in winter due to its relatively low R Value. Also have a look at the Sea to Summit Etherlite insulated mat - a great mat and thicker than others for the weight. It has a slightly lower R value than the XTherm but I find it a great mat.
In terms of a tent it very much depends on the amount of snow if any you will experience. There is normally plenty of snow in the Walls in winter but mostly later in the season, but can be at any times.
So tent choice will depend on budget - the Hilliberg tents are the best for these conditions - I have the allak - 2 person freestanding and its bombproof. They are not cheap tents but will last a lifetime.
User avatar
philm
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 10:49 am
Region: South Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 11 May, 2020 12:09 pm

I'll stick my neck out and disagree with others. A -4 comfort sleeping bag is not warm enough for me in the Walls of Jerusalem in Winter. My -7 bag is about right - just barely warm enough some nights, and occasionally I have to put more clothes on. Camp sites in the Walls are at about 1200m elevation and can be very cold indeed, some nights.

I use an Thermarest XTherm. Excellent mat. Best weight-to-warmth ratio that I could find when I bought it. Rather expensive though. As NNW said, best purchased outside of Australia, but you'll need to use a freight forwarding company to work around the exclusive arrangement that Thermarest have with Australia's greedy wholesaler (I presume?), whereby online sites are not permitted to ship Thermarest goods directly to Australian customers. I think even Australia Post will do freight forwarding for you these days, giving you an overseas address to ship to in multiple other countries.

I use a One Planet Goondie tent. Slept in it on the snow in the Walls of Jerusalem last year. Great tent. See my thorough review of this tent (from several years ago).

Here's a video a mate made of our winter walk through the Walls last year, using our "live" and still photos. (Includes the Goondie on a thin layer of snow.)
Son of a Beach
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6669
Joined: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 7:55 am
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby philm » Mon 11 May, 2020 12:38 pm

Are you talking lower limit or comfort rating for the bag?

I was suggesting a -4 comfort with a good mat and probably a warm liner with the option to wear additional clothing would work. Agree this may not be warm enough for the worst conditions the Walls can throw at you but you would survive!
User avatar
philm
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 10:49 am
Region: South Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 11 May, 2020 1:56 pm

philm wrote:Are you talking lower limit or comfort rating for the bag?

I was suggesting a -4 comfort with a good mat and probably a warm liner with the option to wear additional clothing would work. Agree this may not be warm enough for the worst conditions the Walls can throw at you but you would survive!


As stated originally (but not entirely clearly), I was talking about the comfort rating. -4 comfort rating is not warm enough for me at high altitude in winter. -7 comfort rating is about right - for me.

It's also important to note that these ratings vary wildly between brands. I'm talking about One Planet's bags, which adhere to the standard (european standard, I think it is). Not all brands stick to the strict standard, because testing and certification is tedious, time consuming and expensive.

Therefore the same rating may not mean the same level of comfort on a different brand.

And of course each person is different in what is comfortable for them too.

brodme wrote:a thermal bag liner


I gave up using silk liner and don't like the idea of a "thermal bag liner". By all means use one... if for nothing other than to absorb some sweat and body odour. The liner is way easier to clean than the sleeping bag!

However, my preference is to wear warmer clothes, for both warmth and for avoiding a stinky sleeping bag. A "thermal bag liner" may provide a little warmth, but I would guess not as much warmth as some good clothes. I'd prefer to take an extra set of thermals, just for clean sleepwear (ie, to use as pyjamas). I find the bag liners to be very uncomfortable, because I'm a restless sleeper. They end up twisted and tangled around me, causing me to be an even more restless sleeper.

But again, that's probably just me.
Son of a Beach
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6669
Joined: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 7:55 am
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby north-north-west » Mon 11 May, 2020 3:02 pm

Son of a Beach wrote:I use an Thermarest XTherm. Excellent mat. Best weight-to-warmth ratio that I could find when I bought it. Rather expensive though. As NNW said, best purchased outside of Australia, but you'll need to use a freight forwarding company to work around the exclusive arrangement that Thermarest have with Australia's greedy wholesaler (I presume?), whereby online sites are not permitted to ship Thermarest goods directly to Australian customers. I think even Australia Post will do freight forwarding for you these days, giving you an overseas address to ship to in multiple other countries.


This is why I suggested getting it - or any Thermarest product - from the UK. Freight is cheaper (and quicker) than the US, the mats are made in Ireland, are cheaper once you do the currency conversions (especially if you get them on sale) and there are no shipping restrictions. My XTherm cost $AUS370 including all fees and bank charges.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 12777
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: Winter Walks

Postby brodme » Mon 11 May, 2020 7:20 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone, looks like the xTherm mat is the way to go.

My current bag is a Sea to Summit Ascent II, comfort rating is -4. I'm reluctant to spend too much on a new bag just yet, and with the thermolite extreme liner plus some extra clothes for sleeping sounds like it'll be OK and at worst a little on the cold side. If I end up cold then I'll look at upgrading the bag for future trips.

Tent might need a bit more thought, the hilleberg looks amazing but a bit outside our price range, I'll give the goondie and some of the wilderness equipment tents a look in as our old macpac tent might be tested should we get much snow/wind.
brodme
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat 16 Nov, 2019 8:11 pm
Region: Tasmania

Re: Winter Walks

Postby crollsurf » Mon 11 May, 2020 7:42 pm

Why not try your luck with a 10-0C degree synthetic quilt. Synth is cheaper and there isn't a great weight saving at those temps. You could drag that along in winter and wrap it around your -4 and have a great UL Summer sleeping system as well.

The C value is cumulative so I'll leave it the experts but a -4 + 0C should get you below -10.

Tent I can't help you with but local knowledge of an area can have you camped in a nice protected area without the need of a 4 seasons tent.


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
User avatar
crollsurf
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue 07 Mar, 2017 10:07 am
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby Warin » Mon 11 May, 2020 8:35 pm

Son of a Beach wrote: I'd prefer to take an extra set of thermals, just for clean sleepwear (ie, to use as pyjamas).


The EN thermal ratings are for someone who is already wearing thermals. If you don't wear them then you will miss some of the bags thermal rating.
User avatar
Warin
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:02 am
Region: New South Wales

Re: Winter Walks

Postby Son of a Beach » Tue 12 May, 2020 8:08 am

brodme wrote:our old macpac tent might be tested should we get much snow/wind.


Which Macpac? How old?

I would trust my old Macpac Olympus tent above just about anything else. The ONLY reason I don't use it much anymore is that it is a little heavy for one person. I always use it when there are two of us, and even bought another second-hand old Olympus for my two kids to use.


Warin wrote:
Son of a Beach wrote: I'd prefer to take an extra set of thermals, just for clean sleepwear (ie, to use as pyjamas).


The EN thermal ratings are for someone who is already wearing thermals. If you don't wear them then you will miss some of the bags thermal rating.


Yes. I always sleep in thermals. And the -7 (EN comfort rating) sleeping bag works out to be just right at high altitude in winter - although I occasionally have to put on extra clothes on top of the thermals.
Son of a Beach
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6669
Joined: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 7:55 am
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby Krunel » Mon 18 May, 2020 4:44 pm

A few things I find help out with cold weather camping: thermos, don't let your boots freeze overnight, keep your feet dry during the day, fingers warm in the morning, cope with short daylight hours, have layers to pop on when you stop, booties, yummy dinner, consider a pee bottle, etc.

Pick your weather, any warm bag & tent can be ok. Get a clear night, stars, alpen glow around Mt J, heaven.
Krunel
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 20 Mar, 2013 9:42 am
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby Zaeed » Tue 07 Jul, 2020 2:40 pm

Hey, just jumping on this.

I'm squared away with most gear for a winter hike, but the one thing i'm not 100% sure about is a jacket for when you reach camp and stop walking. What are people suggestions here, throw on some heavy thermals, carry a super warm puffer?

Target area is WoJ in winter.

Cheers.
Zaeed
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2019 1:33 pm
Region: Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby Tino B » Wed 08 Jul, 2020 11:45 am

I’d be taking a down jacket with about 200g of fill of 750+ down. So jacket between about 450-550g. Keep it in a dry bag.
Tino B
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun 18 Nov, 2018 5:43 pm
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Winter Walks

Postby Zaeed » Wed 08 Jul, 2020 1:09 pm

I decided to get a MB Alpine Light. 135g of 800 fill. 403g total weight. I can pair it with a fleece if it's going to be super cold.
Zaeed
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri 01 Feb, 2019 1:33 pm
Region: Australia
Gender: Male


Return to Tasmania

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron