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Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec, 2020 6:13 am
by Xplora
north-north-west wrote:Article in the SMH. Good thing is that the letters are, excepting those that simply attack Garrett, overwhelmingly in favour of removal.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/national-disgrace-garrett-calls-for-feral-horse-removal-to-save-kosciuszko-20201220-p56p2c.html


I read that yesterday. It was the SMH so the support base would be different. Those supporting horses tend not to read the Age or SMH (same paper different state). They seem more aligned to the Herald Sun and Sky News although in digital print things can be different. Herald Sun is paywalled as is its sister paper the Australian. However, this is a great bit of writing from Ricky French in the Weekend Australian which is not paywalled https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquir ... 38827d4ff2 Comments run both ways but many supporting the culling of horses.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec, 2020 7:21 am
by davidmorr
I said "if they are any good". My local MP is an independent and responses are quick.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec, 2020 11:47 am
by north-north-west
Xplora wrote: However, this is a great bit of writing from Ricky French in the Weekend Australian which is not paywalled https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquir ... 38827d4ff2 Comments run both ways but many supporting the culling of horses.


Ricky French is usually pretty good. He's so out of place in the Newscorpse stable.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec, 2020 4:24 am
by Xplora
north-north-west wrote:
Xplora wrote: However, this is a great bit of writing from Ricky French in the Weekend Australian which is not paywalled https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquir ... 38827d4ff2 Comments run both ways but many supporting the culling of horses.


Ricky French is usually pretty good. He's so out of place in the Newscorpse stable.


I am sure he will appreciate your words as he is a member here. I would agree he is out of place where he is but another writer who is engaging in a project about the feral horses used to work for Newscorp also. Something about having a green writer. At least it gets the point across to those far right wing type.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jan, 2021 4:51 pm
by johnrs
URGENT E PETITION EXPIRES TONIGHT WE ARE 5OOO SIGNATURES SHORT PLEASE SIGN NOW!!

As our ePetition to protect Kosciuszko from feral horses comes down to the wire we have important news to share.

This morning the NSW Government released the 2020 feral horse population estimate for Kosciuszko National Park and guess what?

It confirms what we've said all along: too many horses are threatening the fragile wetlands and wildlife of the irreplaceable Kosciuszko National Park and we're calling on the NSW Parliament to stop the damage.

In the past 24 hours more than 5000 people have joined the fight to save Kosci from the burgeoning feral horse population.

If all of our supporters can ask 5 family members or friends from NSW to sign, we still have time to reach 20,000 signatures by midnight tonight and force the NSW Parliament to properly debate the need to protect Kosciuszko's sensitive habitats and wildlife from a damaging, introduced species.

Will you please call on your friends and family to join us and 14,000 others by signing the petition to protect Kosciuszko?

The updated 2020 feral horse estimate puts Kosci's horse population at around 14,000, concluding with 95% confidence that there are at least 9000 feral horses in the park and as many as 22,000!

In a surprise turn of events NSW Deputy Premier John Barilaro told the Sydney Morning Herald “We must reduce the number of brumbies, whether it’s down to 600, 1000, or 3000," adding that there are parts of the park that “should have zero horses".

The Kosciuszko Wild Horse Heritage Act introduced by the Deputy Premier more than two years ago has been a huge distraction to horse management in Kosciuszko and the numbers game has well and truly reached its expiration date.

We’ve lost valuable time and 2020 horse count confirms that every year you wait, the scale of the problem increases.

We welcome this morning’s news that Mr Barilaro has acknowledged the 2020 horse count and the need to act.

Together we can seize this opportunity to encourage the NSW Parliament to step up now to protect and restore nature.




Sign petition HERE https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/la/Pa ... 9GrpxUGQ==


Please sign the petition by midnight tonight to let the NSW Parliament know you support a reduction in horse numbers for the health of Kosciuszko National Park and please ask all your friends and family to sign.

Yours for Kosci,
Candice and Linda

P.S You can read the SMH article online, our full response to the 2020 horse count is in our press release and you can download the full technical report on the 2020 horse count from the NSW Government’s website.




Save our Kosciuszko home from feral horses, sign the petition: bit.ly/savekosci

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jan, 2021 5:07 pm
by crollsurf
From Brumby campaigner Pete Cochrane on FB
"So this is Matt Keans culling program ? Baiting horses now ? Currangorambla Gap trap site . Salted down area . Dead horse . No bullet marks . Terrifying site to young children touring with CochranHorse Treks . So does the Peter Garret support this type of barbaric behaviour? Please share this photo . Challenge Reclaim Kosi to answer this carnage . Write to the Minister and your local
member and above all , share this post far and wide !"
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3612057285552971&set=a.471006576324740
With friends like the Nationals, the Libs must be thinking, who needs enemies!

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Wed 13 Jan, 2021 5:30 pm
by Zapruda
Cochran could couldn’t give a *&%$#! about the welfare of feral horses. He only cares about his little brumby sight seeing safaris. I’ve got evidence of Brumby running up there in winter. I can only guess who the culprit is... Someone that “loves” horses I’m sure.

He even told he me personally that certain bridles trails in Northern KNP are commercial in confidence. Haha. That’s the way he looks at the mountains, a place to make money and take, take, take. I have a pretty extensive list of bridle trails in the mountains that I’ll be making public next spring so everyone can enjoy the mountains without having to pay, even horse riders.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan, 2021 6:08 am
by Xplora
crollsurf wrote:From Brumby campaigner Pete Cochrane on FB
"So this is Matt Keans culling program ? Baiting horses now ? Currangorambla Gap trap site . Salted down area . Dead horse . No bullet marks . Terrifying site to young children touring with CochranHorse Treks . So does the Peter Garret support this type of barbaric behaviour? Please share this photo . Challenge Reclaim Kosi to answer this carnage . Write to the Minister and your local
member and above all , share this post far and wide !"
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3612057285552971&set=a.471006576324740
With friends like the Nationals, the Libs must be thinking, who needs enemies!


No evidence of baiting but what does that matter? Cochran has whipped up the horse lovers who will believe in any conspiracy. Bari now under attack for backflipping yet again on culling but he comes back with more lies. The tied is changing and now is the time for increased pressure. So many people have escaped the rat race for holidays and I suspect many have gone to KNP. They will see the damage and the number of horses.

Every opportunity you see to comment then take it. Plenty of news stories online which allow that and you don't want the horse supporters to have the only say. These people say horses cause NO damage which is not believable by any stretch. To admit horses cause any damage is to concede they should be controlled. It is a lose-lose argument because denial of damage shows them to be fanatical and without reason or logic. In other words nothing they say is to be taken seriously. Promoting conspiracy theories also makes them look deluded or unhinged. They may get thousands more signatures on a petition and make lots of comments trying to stop the removal of horses but their words are far more hollow than the reasoned and constrained words of those trying to save a fragile environment.

I read one comment which said word to the effect a tadpole will never be considered better than a horse. There a millions more people without horses in this country who would not care much about them anyway. Tiny things are cut and vulnerable. Horses can be made to look like the big bullies. Cochran is bully also. Picking on Koalas did no favours for Bari.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Wed 17 Feb, 2021 2:35 pm
by crollsurf
A new report from Frontier Economics warns the failure to reduce feral horse numbers in Kosciuszko National Park is costing the NSW economy up to $50 million a year.
https://invasives.org.au/media-releases/kosciuszkos-feral-horses-costing-nsw-up-to-50-million-a-year/

Here I guess is an example of the costs of keeping deer and horse out:
The Bogong High Plains is an area of outstanding biodiversity and landscape values in the heart of Victoria’s Alpine National Park, writes our Victorian deer project officer, Peter Jacobs.
https://invasives.org.au/blog/high-cost-of-fencing-out-ferals-in-australias-alps/

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2021 10:49 am
by Xplora
Parliamentary inquiry hearing evidence this week from Andrew Cox (Invasive species council) and others including Jill Pickering from the Australian Brumby alliance.
https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/epc-lc/article/4454 You can stream it or wait for the transcript.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2021 10:15 pm
by commando
Join the fight to save Kosciuszko from the burgeoning feral horse population. NOPE...

Join the fight to save Kosciuszko from the burgeoning feral human population, whose managers, given half the chance will
build miles of duckboards, bitumen roads, chairlifts, and high rise apartments and then you will pay dollars for the privilege
to access a National Park which is for the people and never meant to have admission charges to access ($200 for the Overland)

Some realization mirrors are required...

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Fri 26 Mar, 2021 5:00 pm
by Xplora

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Fri 26 Mar, 2021 5:17 pm
by Zapruda
commando wrote:Join the fight to save Kosciuszko from the burgeoning feral horse population. NOPE...

Join the fight to save Kosciuszko from the burgeoning feral human population, whose managers, given half the chance will
build miles of duckboards, bitumen roads, chairlifts, and high rise apartments and then you will pay dollars for the privilege
to access a National Park which is for the people and never meant to have admission charges to access ($200 for the Overland)

Some realization mirrors are required...


Kosciuszko is still free. You are only charged to bring a vehicle in to some very limited areas of the park. The vast majority of the park there is no charge for vehicles.

People caused the horse issue and now it’s time to fix it.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Sat 27 Mar, 2021 8:04 am
by stry


Thanks for the heads up. Looks like I have some reading to do.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Sat 27 Mar, 2021 11:15 am
by Joynz
I’m just reading the Draft now before filling in the survey. It’s depressing reading:

‘... on 8 November 2018, leading Australian scientists presented scientific evidence clearly demonstrating that feral horses in alpine national parks have already caused widespread and, in some cases, irreparable damage to wetlands and streams (Worboys et al. 2018). Vegetation structure has been damaged, stream morphology degraded, alpine wetlands drained, populations of Broad-toothed Rat (Tooarrana) eliminated, and habitat for populations of native fish negatively impacted (ibid).’ (Draft Feral Horse Horse Action Plan (March 2021) p.8.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Sun 28 Mar, 2021 11:35 am
by Xplora
The language in this draft is much stronger than the last one but it remains to be seen if Parks Vic have the guts to follow through when they start getting significant opposition on the ground when shooting begins. Police will be needed. The damage done by horses specifically can be referenced and determined by the new population that made its way to the Nelse area in 2017. There are no pigs in this area and deer have been there for some time. A small population which grew to 17 caused significant damage in a very short time.

This draft will be adopted despite all the hysteria, rhetoric, misrepresentation and lies which the pro horse people will spew out in their submissions. Trapping will continue but only when there are sufficient homes. If there are insufficient homes then shooters will be used. That will encourage a few more people offer to take horses but there a not many suitable homes. You need considerable experience and facilities to take mature feral horses and most people recognise how inferior these animals are to domestic bred horses and don't see any value in them.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Thu 01 Apr, 2021 2:07 pm
by stry
Waded through the entire plan, and was impressed.

Puzzlingly, the specific questions in the survey related only to rehoming. Hopefully not a sign of pussy footing around the nutters.

The disinformation is well under way with a McGuire, presumably a relative, claiming on FB that Parks are attempting to mislead people into believing that shooting is not on the agenda.

Shooting is clearly mentioned in the Executive Summary at the beginning of the plan and in various places throughout the plan, which is good, as nothing else will work.

It would appear to me that any deceit in this matter is confined to those opposing the plan. :cry:

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr, 2021 6:27 am
by Xplora
Parks have been trying to encourage re-homing but are frustrated by the lack of numbers taking horses. When the shooting starts you may see more people taking up the offer but it is not an easy offer. People need to have the experience and facilities to cope with a wild animal. That is why most only want young horses. Older horses are much harder to deal with. There are basically only two options available in this plan. Shooting or trapping (only for re-homing). Maguire has made mentioned Parks scientist (Norman) and stated he said there will be no shooting. The plan clearly states otherwise. He is trying to show Parks are inept and he will fail. The consultation will not change the plan a great deal. Shooting will be approved. Expect more legal action and some on the ground protests.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 12:15 pm
by commando
Did Brumbies do this ?? Wake up Australia.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 12:25 pm
by north-north-west
No, commando, they didn't. But they make the resultant problems even worse.
Your argument is nothing but whataboutery. Yes, there are many other environmental issues in Australia, but this discussion is about feral horses and the damage they do in the high country. This is something that is relatively easy to address, so it's a good place to focus certain resources. Not the only place or even the most important, but we can deal with more than one problem at a time, you know.

Feral horses damage sensitive alpine and sub-alpine environments. Humans put them there. It is up to humans to remove them. End of.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 12:26 pm
by davidmorr
Part of an attitude that anything goes so long as there is a buck or political advantage to be gained. Never mind about the consequences - the taxpayer can deal with them.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 12:53 pm
by wildwanderer
Does anyone know how these work?

I'm assuming it's a horse holding pen? And part of the relocation operations.

There were two of them one with no gate (or any means of entry) and the other with a small but beefy metal gate, hardly something that would be easy to get a wild horse into. Fences are over 8 feet high and strongly reinforced. NPWS has set up some trail cams at the site.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 1:20 pm
by davidmorr
I do not know specifically what they are, but they could be to exclude certain animals from the area so as to compare the effects of the animals on the vegetation.

Also, I saw some fenced off areas near Currango a few weeks ago which were around an infestation of Hawkweed. Not as elaborate as this though.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 1:25 pm
by wildwanderer
davidmorr wrote:I do not know specifically what they are, but they could be to exclude certain animals from the area so as to compare the effects of the animals on the vegetation.

Also, I saw some fenced off areas near Currango a few weeks ago which were around an infestation of Hawkweed. Not as elaborate as this though.



Hmm. I just assumed it was part of the horse relocation program. Possibly nothing to do with it at all then.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 1:42 pm
by stry
Exclusion fencing I reckon. The small mesh and the height suggests that they are aimed at keeping out a variety of critters, including horses, and possibly some natives.

Seems to be provision for a hot wire also, but that may simply be to create a visual for horses.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 1:55 pm
by potato
^^x2 - it looks like an exclusion plot. The are a few examples scattered around the Australian Alps for different reasons but mainly to demonstrate the impact of ferals.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Tue 20 Apr, 2021 5:45 pm
by Zapruda
Stry, Davidmorr and Potato are correct, this is exclosure fencing to keep the horses out. Is this in the Cascades area? There was some new exclosure fencing installed to protect the Galaxias in the area.

This is a horse trap btw.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Wed 21 Apr, 2021 7:41 am
by Xplora
commando wrote:Did Brumbies do this ?? Wake up Australia.


Another issue. But is it in the National Park? If the horses learnt to stay in State forest then nobody would bother them except those who seek to protect these horses by chasing them until they collapse and throwing a rope around their necks then dragging them onto a truck to be shipped off to the abattoir when they cannot be trained.
Wake up indeed.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Wed 21 Apr, 2021 8:11 am
by Warin
Xplora wrote:Another issue. But is it in the National Park? If the horses learnt to stay in State forest then nobody would bother them except those who seek to protect these horses


Think you'll find some state forest don't want then either. Same thing with farmers.

Re: Horses and heritage

PostPosted: Wed 21 Apr, 2021 8:22 am
by potato
Zapruda wrote:Stry, Davidmorr and Potato are correct, this is exclosure fencing to keep the horses out. Is this in the Cascades area? There was some new exclosure fencing installed to protect the Galaxias in the area.

This is a horse trap btw.


Is that the trap at Cowombat Flat?