Deer - backstrap?

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Deer - backstrap?

Postby ErichFromm » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 7:44 am

So was up in Alpine region over weekend - Mt Howitt, Vallejo hut etc. Was camped at Kelly's Lane and at one point I decided to cross the stream to explore what was on other side. I found a large deer, clearly dead for a few days as was starting to bloat.

What seemed strange was that it was largely unharmed/undamaged except it's back was opened up all along the back so you could see its spine - a very neat line about 2 inches each side along the spine. Was wondering if this was something a hunter would have done? If so it seems like a real waste of meat and therefore an unjustified unnecessary kill. But if animals then what animal would be so neat and not try and eat any other part?

I'd post a picture but it might be inappropriate.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby slparker » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 8:29 am

The backstrap is arguably the best cut of venison so I'd say a hunter has been at work.

I imagine wild dogs or dingos would be a bit less precise with their dissection - but I am just surmising that
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby neilmny » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 9:28 am

slparker wrote:The backstrap is arguably the best cut of venison so I'd say a hunter has been at work.

I imagine wild dogs or dingos would be a bit less precise with their dissection - but I am just surmising that


Looks that way but it stinks that the rest is wasted probably by someone too lazy to carry the rest out.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 9:36 am

I'd say a very necessary kill myself despite liking to hunt Sambar when I get the chance.
More a matter of harvesting some meat from a species that is fast approaching vermin status rather than simply a pest.
Animal may have been too heavy to turn over and harvest the fillets
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby ErichFromm » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 10:07 am

Even if it's a case of getting rid of vermin the deer was literally a few metres from the campground - so either the deer was shot further away and made it's way to the creek before dying, or a worse that it was shot within the camp grounds (it was so close someone could have been sitting by their tent and still taken a shot).

It's going to be a huge stink in a few weeks once it really starts to rot - just in time for Kelly's lane to be opened up at end of this month....
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 11:08 am

I've heard about Sambar running for kilometres before dieing if not felled immediately.
There is an ongoing discussion about carcass removal, with many people arguing that the carcass should rot in place to replenish the nutrients "stolen" by a feral animal.
I see this as an argument in favour of reintroducing Devils to the mainland
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby slparker » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 1:01 pm

It's been decades since I shot a deer but standard practice was to gut the deer, leave the offal and carry the rest out.

We wouldn't have contemplated cutting off a fillet and leaving good meat rot and/or the remains near a campground.

Probably bogans at work.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby neilmny » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 1:13 pm

slparker wrote:It's been decades since I shot a deer but standard practice was to gut the deer, leave the offal and carry the rest out.

We wouldn't have contemplated cutting off a fillet and leaving good meat rot and/or the remains near a campground.

Probably bogans at work.


Requires a like. feral or not it's a disgusting waste to leave the majority to rot.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby stry » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 1:49 pm

Agree that no animal should be killed and not utilised. Just wrong, and in the location described, almost certainly the work of shoot and run midnight marauders.

The usual practice is to take back legs, backstraps, filets, front legs if they are not excessively damaged, and if a vehicle can get close enough, neck and both halves of the rib cage.(edit: and the liver - if undamaged) This leaves very little, and that little will disappear within three to five or six days.

And to clarify, deer are not, by definition, feral. Introduced - yes. Feral - no. Check the Oxford Dictionary for confirmation.

If one wishes to use "feral" as a synonym for wild, we would then have feral foxes, koalas, dingoes and so on, which simply is not correct.

The question of numbers and management of the numbers of deer is a complex separate issue which has no bearing on the continued incorrect use of the "feral" pejorative.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 2:15 pm

Well on a personal level I do disagree as I feel that all introduced animals allowed to run wild and breed freely are definitely "Feral"
Foxes, hares , rabbits, camels, cats, donkeys and horses are considered feral as a matter of course; why exempt deer species?
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 2:33 pm

I forgot goats and pigs, of those I mentioned above I am prepared to retract foxes, as these were never "domesticated" but Australias rabbits came from England and they were introduced there by the Romans and at that time were very definitely a farmed animal.
Feral is not perjorative, it is descriptive, unless of course we are talking about hippies and I should know as I only cut my hair off a decade ago.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby nezumi » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 2:56 pm

Moondog55 wrote:Well on a personal level I do disagree as I feel that all introduced animals allowed to run wild and breed freely are definitely "Feral"
Foxes, hares , rabbits, camels, cats, donkeys and horses are considered feral as a matter of course; why exempt deer species?


Agreed - while utilising the meat is a definite bonus, culls are regularly conducted with professional shooters where the bodies won't be harvested, but this is necessary for the overall environment.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby stry » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 3:17 pm

Moondog55 wrote:Well on a personal level I do disagree as I feel that all introduced animals allowed to run wild and breed freely are definitely "Feral"
Foxes, hares , rabbits, camels, cats, donkeys and horses are considered feral as a matter of course; why exempt deer species?


Whenever I have this conversation, people seem reluctant to check the Oxford reference, and to continue to adhere to their existing notion. Oxford - look it up. :)

"Feral" is essentially defined as of domestic origin, not a wild animal that may have been confined for a generation or two. Clearly, cats, donkeys, goats, pigs, horses conform to the definition, as may camels and rabbits. Hares may be a bit uncertain, but foxes and deer definitely do not. "Feral" can also simply be "wild", which certainly applies to deer, but also applies to every other faunal occupant of our bush.

I am not suggesting deer should be exempt, as they are not in the feral group to be exempted. Deer are not of domestic origins, and are therefore not feral. It isn't a matter of exemption, but a matter of incorrect terminology.

Thank you for clarifying your position on the use of "feral" as a pejorative. Sadly many others deliberately use it as a pejorative to further their agendas to demonise deer without making any attempt to understand the issues involved, nor to make any substantive contribution to a way forward. Essentially this type of usage is a simple variation on the time proven "say it often enough and they will believe it" strategy that has been used for a very long time. The fact that I misunderstood you shows how insidious the tactic is. :)
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Baeng72 » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 3:25 pm

Since we're getting into pedantry.

Feral can mean never domesticated and domesticated run wild.

Feral: existing in a natural state, as animals or plants; not domesticated or cultivated; wild.
having reverted to the wild state, as from domestication: a pack of feral dogs roaming the woods.
of or characteristic of wild animals; ferocious; brutal.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feral

: of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast feral teeth feral instincts
2a : not domesticated or cultivated : wild feral animals
b : having escaped from domestication and become wild feral cats

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feral

If you want an argument from etymology, feral is from Latin fera and just means wild animal.

I expect this to convince nobody. And I don't have access to Oxford dictionary and as English isn't standardized, Oxford isn't definitive.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby neilmny » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 3:49 pm

Baeng72 wrote:Since we're getting into pedantry.

Feral can mean never domesticated and domesticated run wild.

Feral: existing in a natural state, as animals or plants; not domesticated or cultivated; wild.
having reverted to the wild state, as from domestication: a pack of feral dogs roaming the woods.
of or characteristic of wild animals; ferocious; brutal.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feral

: of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast feral teeth feral instincts
2a : not domesticated or cultivated : wild feral animals
b : having escaped from domestication and become wild feral cats

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feral

If you want an argument from etymology, feral is from Latin fera and just means wild animal.

I expect this to convince nobody. And I don't have access to Oxford dictionary and as English isn't standardized, Oxford isn't definitive.


In that case we had better change the title from backstrap to strip loin.
So a domestic cat that has run wild is feral but does that mean that a cat born in the wild is not feral?
Ah dozen madder!
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Baeng72 » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 4:03 pm

Well, I think language is loose enough that if it's wild, it's feral, and the animal's past is nobody's business. :wink:
To be honest, I've always thought Feral meant domesticated gone wild, so I sort of agree with Stry, but I thought I'd check out some dictionaries and that's what I got.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby neilmny » Mon 16 Nov, 2020 5:09 pm

Baeng72 wrote:Well, I think language is loose enough that if it's wild, it's feral, and the animal's past is nobody's business. :wink:
..................


:lol:
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby puredingo » Tue 17 Nov, 2020 1:57 pm

Yep, if I put a deer in the cross-hairs it won't get a chance to submit it's ancestry.com documents to the board.
Right or wrong they'll always be feral to me, just like most slang/colloquial terms...as long as it's understood it's fine.

I'll also go with pest, nuisance, dangerous and destructive not to mention also extremely delicious! But I don't fully subscribe to the point of view "eat all you dispatch" but I'm more than happy to drop off to any of the believers the "feral" fox I put pay to?
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Heremeahappy1 » Tue 17 Nov, 2020 4:39 pm

The sheer numbers of these pest animals outstrip the meagre impacts brought by recreational hunting alone. It is impossible to harvest much of the animal, recreationally or commercially. Much like goats and pigs for others, we get schitzels, sausages, roasts, jerky, kabana from deer, at least there is some food use while helping rid the environment of a pest species. Not sure how to prepare Brumbies... It is however, poor form to leave a carcass in a waterway. Many user groups enjoy our natural environments, we've all got a pest problem to deal with.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby commando » Tue 17 Nov, 2020 7:10 pm

The only pest species mother earth has to worry about has two legs and watches tv.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby wildwanderer » Wed 18 Nov, 2020 2:48 pm

commando wrote:The only pest species mother earth has to worry about has two legs and watches tv.

Agree
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Xplora » Thu 19 Nov, 2020 5:53 am

I have found the backstraps of large (older) deer to be pretty ordinary for my taste and usually end up in the mincer or a casserole. We would east venison on a weekly basis now and the only thing left when we are finished dressing down a kill is the guts and bones. I would agree also it is poor form to leave a dead animal in a campsite near a stream. Some people only want a trophy so you will see the head gone and maybe dressed back to the front legs for taxidermy. Unfortunately with deer in such abundance there are many who have taken to hunting them because it is easy. We are constantly having trouble with poachers and just recently another was shot at night, from the road, in the front yard of a house. Arguing what to call deer is of little value. They are a pest animal and so are those who cannot hunt with any respect. My personal view is do whatever it takes to get the numbers back to where they are again hard to find. That will also weed out the cowboys who would not like to spend a couple of days stalking.

Winter of 2019 we were skiing around BHP and saw ravens flying in and out of a hole in the snow. They had dug a metre down to a deer carcass and were feasting. I suspect the deer had been shot in the helicopter cull before winter. With these culls, if a deer is shot near a waterway or a common walking track, it is removed. Well it is supposed to be removed and I would hope they are. The deer we found was quite a distance from any stream or walking track but they shot over 200 that week.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby CraigVIC » Tue 24 Nov, 2020 5:05 pm

$18 million for deer control in the Victorian budget today. They're in the official press release as "feral deer"
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby commando » Tue 24 Nov, 2020 9:45 pm

Those feral pelicans are damaging the environment...
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby Xplora » Wed 25 Nov, 2020 5:29 am

CraigVIC wrote:$18 million for deer control in the Victorian budget today. They're in the official press release as "feral deer"

The new management strategy for deer has also been released.
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Re: Deer - backstrap?

Postby ricrunner » Thu 26 Nov, 2020 8:00 pm

I cannot kill anything anymore, especially a majestic animal like a deer. I have some on my forestry lease up near Guy Fawkes. Their would be a herd of 20 or more, but as the lease was partially cleared before I took over, their is enough feed for every animal there. On a beautiful morning 3 weeks ago, the creek paddock, looked like a zoo, with all the natives and introduced animals sharing the place. It was like God had touched the place, it was an absolutely beautiful sight. Oh By the way, I also don't cut down my trees, as the legal amount had been cut before I bought the old bloke out. Still have 3800 acres of forest never touched, and 55 years left on the lease.
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