Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

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Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Eremophila » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 10:10 am

https://www.macpac.com.au/hike/clothing ... in-jacket-—-womens/114486.html?dwvar_114486_color=Blackberry%20Wine&dwvar_114486_clearance=no#start=4

I purchased this jacket in July, wanting a longer-length rain jacket and one with a proper peaked hood. Been using a hip-length Kathmandu Goretex jacket for years with no issues at all.

Fit was good - I went up a size which wasn’t really necessary. The hood was great.

On a 5-day rail trail walk in July, we had one day of light rain. The jacket wetted out quite quickly, my arms were damp and items in the front pockets were really damp. We were doing the soft option of staying in towns each night, so no problem drying it for the next day.

I ended up keeping the jacket for almost 3 months as we had a surprisingly dry winter. Opportunities to further test the jacket always seemed to be when I was working or otherwise occupied, or sleeping! After a few more test runs it was the same story each time.

Finally returned it to Macpac with the requisite form and a short note stating that it wasn’t fit for purpose. To their credit they have processed a refund promptly, although I’m surprised I haven’t been contacted for further details. They simply seem to accept that their jacket marketed as “waterproof” may not be so.

Now to re-start the search.....
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Joynz » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 11:38 am

Mont does some nice 3-layer longer length jackets - I’ve had one since 2013. I prefer the version with the external/internal storm flaps on the main zip rather than the newer waterproof zip option.

The hood doesn’t have a peak though.

https://www.mont.com.au/collections/men ... jacket-men

https://www.mont.com.au/collections/wom ... cket-women

If you like the Macpac coat, why not try out another one? Might have just been a manufacturing issue.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby GregG » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 1:04 pm

I have owned three breathable-membrane rain jackets, two were Goretex and the other was Hydronaute, not one of them remained waterproof for any useful period of time. Re-proofing with DWR treatments gave a temporary result, Graingers seemed to be the best stuff to use but even that did not outlast two or three outings. My current jacket is a Mont and it wets out across the shoulders first, this seems to be the weak point of this kind of rain wear because (I think) backpack shoulder straps stretch the membrane and also rub-in dirt and grunge. When walking in rain in all but very cold conditions I now walk without a rain jacket and put on a 100% waterproof PU coated nylon rain jacket when I reach camp. This is more pleasant I find, I would rather be rain soaked than sweat soaked. But then again I must admit that most of my walking tends to be under mild climates these days, no doubt different approach needed elsewhere eg Tassie or Aust Alps.
Last edited by GregG on Sat 24 Oct, 2020 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby johnrs » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 1:59 pm

Yes Eremophila
My Copland has never been really waterproof despite lots of retreatments
Not really satisfied with it but
But durable with good length and good hood so it keeps me safely away from hypothermia.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Eremophila » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 3:01 pm

Yes, I’ve been looking at the Mont jackets. The hoods look ok although not all of the photos are helpful. Getting up there in weight though.

And I agree, I’d rather storm flaps than Aquaguard zips which are only water resistant.

I didn’t bother treating the jacket, I expect when I purchase a waterproof jacket that it will be waterproof off the shelf. And if I had to treat it before each use I’d feel as though I couldn’t rely on it.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Lamont » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 4:30 pm

https://www.oneplanet.com.au/product/cat-and-dog/ there is a 'Torrent'/ 'Jim Jim' longer version as well -even that is lighter than all the ones linked above at a quick glance it seems?
No love for the One Planet Synapse 3 layer or does it not work?
I have their (old model) 'Event' rain strides that are very robust and have never wetted out.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wayno » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 5:13 pm

heavy material and no pit zips make rain jackets real sweat boxes... the heavier face fabric lowers the breathability of the membrane as well. thicker threads, fewer threads, less gaps between the threads for the moisture to get out. and the copeland uses reflex membrane, has low breathability
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby GregG » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 5:43 pm

Yes Wayno, what you said!!! I have come to the conclusion that breathable membrane fabric "rain" jackets, on the east coast of Oz at least, are an expensive con job.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wayno » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 5:49 pm

i read a report that tested a lot of rain jackets, some with more breathable membranes could be less breathable than other membranes because they were matched with a thinner face fabric.. so when they give you the lab figures with high no's it doesnt take into account the face fabric on it.. gore tex pro is highly breathable but has been matched with heavier less breathable face fabrics. so looses its advantage...
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Eremophila » Sat 24 Oct, 2020 9:07 pm

The OnePlanet jackets look good, although to be honest I’d hesitate to venture away from Goretex again.

I see they have a stockist in Bendigo- I’ll check that out, as I’m travelling there on a regular basis.

When I see a rain jacket described as “breathable” I always take this with a large pinch of salt.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Joynz » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 12:11 pm

GregG wrote:I have owned three breathable-membrane rain jackets, two were Goretex and the other was Hydronaute, not one of them remained waterproof for any useful period of time. Re-proofing with DWR treatments gave a temporary result, Graingers seemed to be the best stuff to use but even that did not outlast two or three outings. My current jacket is a Mont and it wets out across the shoulders first, this seems to be the weak point of this kind of rain wear because (I think) backpack shoulder straps stretch the membrane and also rub-in dirt and grunge. When walking in rain in all but very cold conditions I now walk without a rain jacket and put on a 100% waterproof PU coated nylon rain jacket when I reach camp. This is more pleasant I find, I would rather be rain soaked than sweat soaked. But then again I must admit that most of my walking tends to be under mild climates these days, no doubt different approach needed elsewhere eg Tassie or Aust Alps.


Recently, I noticed my 2013 Mont was not beading anymore and gave Mont a call. They specifically said not to use a DWR wash on it - but just to wash it (as per the label, with a mild detergent) and then iron it to restore the DWR.

Since the coat wasn’t dirty, I had never washed it. But, it turns out, that washing and ironing is the best thing to restore the DWR of Hydronaut.

It is now working like new (though it’s only being used in downpours around suburban Melbourne - as we stay in lockdown...)
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby commando » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 12:48 pm

Planning to test one of these soon, as i prefer nylon raincoats.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 1:00 pm

Swiss poncho is good for deer hunting but at over a kilo far too heavy for bushwalking and very bulky even when compressed down tight. They were 2 for $30- a couple of years ago at Mitchells
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Eremophila » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 6:03 pm

Have a fabulous poncho I bought in Peru for $7.

Not so handy though when the wind is blowing.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby GregG » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 8:52 pm

Joynz wrote:
GregG wrote:I have owned three breathable-membrane rain jackets, two were Goretex and the other was Hydronaute, not one of them remained waterproof for any useful period of time. Re-proofing with DWR treatments gave a temporary result, Graingers seemed to be the best stuff to use but even that did not outlast two or three outings. My current jacket is a Mont and it wets out across the shoulders first, this seems to be the weak point of this kind of rain wear because (I think) backpack shoulder straps stretch the membrane and also rub-in dirt and grunge. When walking in rain in all but very cold conditions I now walk without a rain jacket and put on a 100% waterproof PU coated nylon rain jacket when I reach camp. This is more pleasant I find, I would rather be rain soaked than sweat soaked. But then again I must admit that most of my walking tends to be under mild climates these days, no doubt different approach needed elsewhere eg Tassie or Aust Alps.


Recently, I noticed my 2013 Mont was not beading anymore and gave Mont a call. They specifically said not to use a DWR wash on it - but just to wash it (as per the label, with a mild detergent) and then iron it to restore the DWR.

Since the coat wasn’t dirty, I had never washed it. But, it turns out, that washing and ironing is the best thing to restore the DWR of Hydronaut.

It is now working like new (though it’s only being used in downpours around suburban Melbourne - as we stay in lockdown...)


Graingers have two kinds of DWR - wash-in and spray-on. I have only use the spray-on because, as you have now found out, Hydronaute should not be treated with the wash-in variety. The Graingers Power Wash is not a DWR, it is simply a cleaning product to use before you spray-on the Performance Repel Spray. Despite what Mont say cleaning and ironing the jacket provides only a very temporary improvement in water repellency.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby PedroArvy » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 9:57 pm

Love my Aarn Water Wizard which only works with Aarn packs or day hikes with a normal day pack.
Not breathable but 100% waterproof.
The ventilation provided by draping it over a pack is enormous, there's simply no need for a breathable garment when it is this shape.
Plus it has really long pit zips.
And I like the long length and fitted cut which stops flapping.

In serious rain, waterproof/breathable jackets are a con, see https://andrewskurka.com/backpacking-cl ... ain-pants/

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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Joynz » Sun 25 Oct, 2020 11:38 pm

I have been interested in the water wizard. Incidentally, the Aarn website shows different colours - including the photo posted above - but only appears to be available in green.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wildwanderer » Mon 26 Oct, 2020 2:46 pm

Columbia's ex dry(extreme) is the only material that I've found works(doesn't wet out) while also remaining breathable. I've used it on track and off track in the wet in Oz and in days of torrential rain in NZ.(Now 12 months old and has heavy use) Still works like new.

Unfortunately they don't make them long and the jackets could be designed better imo but you can't beat the ex dry material for keeping you dry in prolonged serious weather.

I've tried multiple versions of goretex, event and other layered waterproof inside membrane materials.. they have all wet out and become damp and cold after the initial dwr wears off. Reapplying dwr has never returned them to their as new condition and they'd start getting damp and wet again within a few hours of the rain starting.

Imo ex dry (extreme) is the only breathable material that continues to work day in day out.

A strong poncho (non breathable) is also a good option if your not a sweaty person. unfortunately I sweat buckets.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby matagi » Mon 26 Oct, 2020 3:03 pm

I always end up wet from perspiration under any rain jacket I use. Currently have a very nice Mont Odyssey with pit zips which I like very much but I have become resigned to the fact that I will end up wet. Had the same problem with my previous jacket, a Macpac Prophet. In fact, I perspire so badly that I only wear a lightweight long sleeve merino top under my rain jacket. I have come to the conclusion that for me at least, waterproof breathable jackets will not keep me dry. I still use one because they also shield you from the wind. The only time I have gotten away with wearing the jacket and not ending up wet from perspiration was in near blizzard conditions on the Overland Track.

Personally, I would love to use a poncho but they are not practical in windy conditions.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby sup3rk1w1 » Sun 22 Nov, 2020 7:27 am

PedroArvy wrote:In serious rain, waterproof/breathable jackets are a con, see https://andrewskurka.com/backpacking-cl ... ain-pants/


This.
Why it's not well known is crazy. I suspect our Northern Hemisphere friends, who deal with real winters for 6 months of the year, are a bit more advanced on these things.
I suspect the OP wasn't getting wet from rain, but from her own perspiration.
I personally never buy a rain jacket without pit-zips and it beggars belief how many jackets from the likes of Kathmandu, Macpac, and other mid-range brands that don't have them.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wayno » Sun 22 Nov, 2020 7:59 am

northern hemisphere raingear is often designed for the weather in the places its designed, ie cold when its raining.. and not raining much when its warmer..
nz rain jacket designs were mainly long because you'd often want to wear shorts when you needed to wear it to reduce overheating... but northern hemisphere rain jackets are all short, it was expected you'd have rainpants on as well.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Eremophila » Sun 22 Nov, 2020 6:02 pm

sup3rk1w1 wrote:I suspect the OP wasn't getting wet from rain, but from her own perspiration.


So... are you suggesting I perspired into the front pockets?

Actually, I’m curious - on what is your suspicion based?
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wildwanderer » Wed 25 Nov, 2020 9:30 am

Eremophila wrote:
sup3rk1w1 wrote:I suspect the OP wasn't getting wet from rain, but from her own perspiration.


So... are you suggesting I perspired into the front pockets?

Actually, I’m curious - on what is your suspicion based?


If you're wearing a pack the shoulder/chest is a common perspiration area. I sweat there even without a pack on warm days.

Once the dwr has worn off and the outer face starts getting wet from rain, the garment cant breathe so water vapour from your body condenses inside the jacket. It's also quite common to get microscopic holes in the membrane if the jacket has been brushed against spikey leaves and twigs or from pack strap abrasion.

These tiny holes can let rain seep in.

But most likely the main issue is the jacket has wet out and it's perspiration as sup3rk1w1 said causing the dampness inside the jacket. Mechanical ventilation like pit zips help

None of us want to believe our expensive goretex jackets don't work very well in Australian conditions but unfortunately it's the reality.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Eremophila » Wed 25 Nov, 2020 9:45 am

As you can see, the pockets are nowhere near the shoulders or chest. Items in the front pockets were wet - not damp, but wet.

This was the first time I'd worn the jacket in rain, and it was only light rain, so the DWR wouldn't have been worn off.

I don't expect a rain jacket to be "breathable" but I do expect it to be waterproof. I do understand the issue of perspiration.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wildwanderer » Wed 25 Nov, 2020 9:57 am

Dwr will wear off with use. Doesn't have to be rained on.

Are you wearing a hip belt over that jacket? That would contribute significantly to dwr rubbing off where the pockets are.

Another possibility is a manufacturing flaw with the pocket seam seal. Assuming the pockets are supposed to be water proof? Are their waterproof zippers under those flaps?

Have you tried wearing the jacket in the shower in cold (ish) water for 10 mins? If your not getting the leaking problem then most likely it's sweat vapor condensing inside the jacket that is the cause.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wayno » Wed 25 Nov, 2020 10:05 am

assuming there is seam sealing on the pockets, capillary action lets the moisture creep around the fabric and work its way through into the pockets through any gas, like under the flap, esp if theres no zipper, wind will drive moisture in as well. almost all zippers that have any water resistance arent fully waterproof, the waterproof ones are very expensive and stuff to use, like you get on dry suits... .
pack belt going over the pockets could create enough pressure to force moisture through the fabric...
waterproof just means it keeps the water from getting through the waterproof layer in a laboratory under specific conditions, it means the rain shouldnt be able to drive direcly through the waterproof membrane, theres other ways for the moisture to get in...
capillary action allows water to creep up the inside of the sleeves and from the bottom hem as well...
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby Dave95 » Sat 16 Jan, 2021 11:53 am

The membranes used in three-layer rain jackets have very fine pores that let vapour through. However, over time, deposits from perspiration block the pores and the breathability of the jacket is lost. The way to restore the breathability is to wash the rain jacket using appropriate detergent. The detergent normally used to wash clothes is not suitable. It will also leave deposits in the pores of the membrane. Most outdoor gear shops sell detergent suitable for use in washing rain jackets.

Most of the regular walkers in the bushwalking club to which I belong do not know how the three-layer fabric from which rain jackets are made functions. They seldom if ever wash their jackets and if they do they don't use an appropriate detergent. The comment made by an earlier poster to this thread that they had not washed their rain jacket because it wasn't dirty illustrated the problem. The reason for washing a rain jacket isn't to clean the surface of the outer fabric it is to clean the pores of the breathable membrane.
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wildwanderer » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 6:23 pm

Dave95 wrote:The membranes used in three-layer rain jackets have very fine pores that let vapour through. However, over time, deposits from perspiration block the pores and the breathability of the jacket is lost. The way to restore the breathability is to wash the rain jacket using appropriate detergent. The detergent normally used to wash clothes is not suitable. It will also leave deposits in the pores of the membrane. Most outdoor gear shops sell detergent suitable for use in washing rain jackets.

Most of the regular walkers in the bushwalking club to which I belong do not know how the three-layer fabric from which rain jackets are made functions. They seldom if ever wash their jackets and if they do they don't use an appropriate detergent. The comment made by an earlier poster to this thread that they had not washed their rain jacket because it wasn't dirty illustrated the problem. The reason for washing a rain jacket isn't to clean the surface of the outer fabric it is to clean the pores of the breathable membrane.


Hmmmm. Yeh not convinced it's a detergent problem. Although washing helps.

Key issue is once the factory dwr goes the jackets can't cope with wet lowland conditions. After market dwr top ups just aren't effective enough.

Edited. to be less rantie lol
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Re: Macpac Copland Long Rain Jacket

Postby wayno » Mon 25 Jan, 2021 6:33 pm

you can use basic soap detergent, the commercial detergents with the aroma's have to leave a residue which gives off the smell , and that residue does block the pores,
restoring the DWR is a black art... dont expect to restore it to the way it was when it was new, and its more chemicals you're adding to the garment that wear off and can persist in the environment....
even with good DWR, when its raining the air won't absorb any moisture , so none can get out of your rain jacket anyway, the advantage only comes after its stopped raining when the humidity drops allowing the moisture to get absorbed into the air... that is if you havent taken your raincoat off.... so the concept is really only useful for cold conditions when you leave your coat on between rain showers... oil from the skin is a big problem blocking the membranes as well
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